Question about Isaiah 43

[elly]

Hi all,
I'm new to this forum, but I recently encountered a verse in the bible that has thrown me for a loop.  It says in Isaiah 43 that the the earth "hangs on nothing".  A christian friend is using this as proof of a divine creator.  At the moment, I'm not sure how to feel about it, as how would someone know this? Does that make sense?  I'm a new atheist (less than a year), so I'm still learning, but does anyone have any thoughts on this??  I can't get it out of my head.  Thanks for all responses.

[The Magic Pudding]

It says in Isaiah 43 that the the earth "hangs on nothing". 

Hello
I thought it was held in it's orbit by the Sun's gravity.
I think gravity is something.

[Crow]

It also moves in orbit around the sun, so its not exactly hanging either.

[not your typical...]

It says in Isaiah 43 that the the earth "hangs on nothing". 

Hello
I thought it was held in it's orbit by the Sun's gravity.
I think gravity is something.

But since gravity is technically only a theory....

[Sweetdeath]

If you're going to question one part of that book, they're all the same globby glock.

Gravity.
I like that answer as well. Use it.
Or better yet, study astrolgy(or is it astronomy  ...?)  and attempt to use science to explain the net that holds planets and space together. ^_¤

[The Magic Pudding]

So the English interpretation of some ancient writings say "the earth hangs on nothing".
Why is this significant?
Is it supposed to be some uncanny ancient insight?
Was it previously believed to hang like a bauble on a christmas tree?
If it was found to lay on the back of a giant turtle you could still say "the earth hangs on nothing".
If the Earth was everything and it was just a big rock and the sky was just a nearby ceiling, still you could say "the earth hangs on nothing".
And besides all that it is tethered in a sense by gravity.

[OldGit]

If the Earth was everything and it was just a big rock and the sky was just a nearby ceiling, still you could say "the earth hangs on nothing".

Those bronze-age goatherds really didn't know much about physics.  But now the faithheads want us to take this stuff literally and with reverence.

[Recusant]

Hello and welcome to HAF, elly. I hope that it doesn't take you too long to get to 10 posts, at which point you'll be able to join this thread!

First, the passage which states that the earth "is suspended over nothing" (NIV) or "hangeth... upon nothing" (KJV) is not in Isaiah, but in Job. If this "apologist" is saying that anything of the sort can be found in Isaiah 43, they're not only promoting twaddle, they're inept.

Second, the earth is neither "suspended," nor "hanging," whether on nothing or not. It's orbiting the sun, and it would have been quite easy for the author of Job (if divinely inspired to miraculously write about scientific knowledge thousands of years before it would be discovered by people on their own) to say in simple, easy to understand language that, "YHVH maketh the earth to go around the sun, supported by nothing but the force he hath created," or something along those lines. That would have been truly interesting. This, on the other hand, is very similar to the "miracles of the Quran" bullshit which has become quite popular in the past few decades or so. I wonder if your interlocutor is aware of that line of thought, and if so, how does he/she deal with it? Is the "miraculous scientific knowledge" supposedly found in the Quran evidence that Muhammad was divinely inspired?

When ideas such as this are used by ad hoc apologists, you can be fairly sure that the person spouting them didn't come up with them on their own. Pretty much anything along these lines has been published, examined and discussed extensively, and such examinations and discussions can be found online with a minimum of effort. Use a little google-fu, and research for yourself the pros and cons of such "proofs" of the existence of the Christian or Islamic god, and make up your own mind. Don't be intimidated by the self-assured tone of these preachers. They're on very shaky ground when they try to force an interpretation of the Bible to support their faith, let alone when they try to use such dubious interpretations to convince others that they should adopt that faith.

For an examination of this particular bit of Creationist propaganda, you can read "Does the Bible Teach a Spherical Earth?" by Robert J. Schneider of the American Scientific Affiliation, who bill themselves as "A Network of Christians in Science." Don't be put off by that though; the ASA does not support the fundamentalist view of the Bible, but is instead dedicated to exploring science honestly from a Christian perspective. They often have articles which take a critical look at Creationist claims.

Another resource you might find helpful is the Skeptic's Annotated Bible. Though with regard to the Job 26 passage, all they do is point out that it is contradicted by another biblical passage, you may find some very interesting material there.

[Too Few Lions]

As Recusant's already pointed out, Isaiah 43 doesn't say that at all. The passage they're probably refering to is Job 26.7 that says, 'He stretches out the north over empty space and hangs the earth on nothing'

The Israelites / early Jews who wrote the OT believed in a flat (most probably circular) earth covered by a dome above that held the stars fixed to it. The Earth was considered to be stationary and the heavenly dome rotated above it. Think of a toy snow dome, and you've pretty much got an idea of their view of the universe, something like this;



There's evidence for this in the Bible for you to point out to your Christian friend;

Amos 9.6 'The One who builds his upper chambers in the heavens
And has founded his vaulted dome over the earth...
...Yahweh is his name. '

Exodus 20.35 'You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

1 Chronicles 16:30: "The Earth is fimly established, it will not be moved."

Psalm 93:1: "The Earth is established, it will not be moved."

Isaiah 40.22: "It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in."

Job 20.12 'Is not God in the height of heaven? Look also at the distant stars, how high they are!'

and even Genesis 1.1 'In the beginning the god(s) created the heavens and the earth'. The heavenly dome above and the flat earth below, a very simplistic worldview.

It's also why Jacob could see a ladder stretching from Earth to the heavens with angels going up and down it.

There's a good article on the flat Earth that the writers of the Bible believed in here;

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm

you might also want to refer your friend to the first book of Enoch, a Jewish mystical text that predates Christianity and has Enoch being given a guided tour of this heavenly dome!

'I then surveyed the receptacles of all the winds, and I saw how they adorned the whole creation and the firm foundations of the earth. And I saw the corner-stone of the earth: I saw the four winds which hold up the earth and the vault of heaven. And I saw how the winds stretch out the vaults of heaven, and have their station between heaven and earth: these are the pillars of the heaven. I saw the winds that turn the sky and cause the orb of the sun and all the stars to set. I saw the winds on the earth that support the clouds: I saw the paths of the angels. I saw at the end of the earth the vault of the heaven above.' (1 Enoch 18.1-8)

[Whitney]

if you think the earth is flat and don't see any wires above your head holding up the earth it would be a safe assumption that the earth hangs on nothing

[Gawen]

Recusant and FTL are correct. There is nothing in Isaiah 43 about this. What I did find was:

Ecclesiastes 1:5 says the sun goes around the earth because according to Ps 93:1, Ps 96:10, and 1 Chr 16:30, the earth does not move.

The Earth doesn't move because 1 Samuel 2:8 and Ps 75:3 say it is placed on pillars. And because it is placed on pillars, Isaiah 40:22 indicates that the earth is a flat disk.

There are other verses indicating the earth is flat, such as Dan 4:10-11. Dan 2:28 states that the visions of Nebuchadnezzar are from God. If the biblical god says the biblical earth is flat, it must be flat.

As far as the firmament goes, the Hebrew word translated as firmament is "raqiya". That word is a verb of "raqa" and means "to beat out," and is used in reference to beating out metal into plates as in Exodus 39:3. So raqiya, as a noun means "that which is beaten out." And THAT means the firmament (sky) is a solid, beaten out expanse or vault set on the rim of the flat disk of the earth and is confirmed in Job 37:18 and implied in Deut 4:32.

So, the "ends of heaven" would be the base of the vault of heaven where it rests on the rim of the disk of the earth as noted or implied in Ps 19:1-6, Isaiah 13:4-5, and Matt 24:31.

The stars are lights set in the firmament. As mere lights, they will fall to the earth in the Last Days (Matt 24:29).

The above is the correct view of the (Biblical) cosmos as conceived by ancient bronze age goat herders.

[Asmodean]

It's actually caught in a net, as is clearly seen here.

(For those interested, the pic is lifted from here)

[The Magic Pudding]

It's actually caught in a net, as is clearly seen here.

Thank you brother Asmo, Jesus is truly a fisher of men.

[Asmodean]

It's actually caught in a net, as is clearly seen here.

Thank you brother Asmo, Jesus is truly a fisher of men.

Amen to that, Brother Pudding! 

[The Magic Pudding]

Amen to that, Brother Pudding! 

The agreement torso for you and legs for me still stands right?